tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post8833549522662509664..comments2024-03-28T02:11:12.904-07:00Comments on Hooterollin' Around: Lyrics-Robert Hunter/Music-David Freiberg (1972-1975)Corry342http://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-21168217305457720872019-02-25T07:44:12.411-08:002019-02-25T07:44:12.411-08:00Hunter briefly talks about Freiberg in a "Ho...Hunter briefly talks about Freiberg in a "Hot Wacks" interview (No 20/21 p 13) and says much the same about "It's Only Music/I Heard You Singing" as in his "Dark Star" interview conducted on the same 1979 London visit.<br /><br />HW: "There's one song, or should I say two, that you wrote with David Frieberg that appear to have the same music, why's that?"<br /><br />RH: "Well that's 'It's Only Music' and 'I Heard You Singing,' they have the same changes. Frieberg didn't like the lyrics to 'I Heard You Singing' so I said 'OK, fine.' So I wrote him another set of lyrics. Then I went out and recorded 'I Heard You Singing' myself and he heard that. Well, actually he played on it. Then he decided he liked that best. So when he came to do the Quicksilver reunion album he did it that way. I like both of them. Frieberg writes a tasty little tune, he's an entirely different writer to Garcia."<br /><br />HW: "Well he seems somewhat subdued in the Starship. He's only had one or two of his tunes recorded."<br /><br />RH: "Well, I don't think David is ambitious in that way, he's one of the most contented people I've ever met. I think he's happy doing what he's doing."runonguinnessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-61432758959060713272016-02-07T18:41:04.347-08:002016-02-07T18:41:04.347-08:00Harp Tree Lament is extremely beautiful and profou...Harp Tree Lament is extremely beautiful and profound Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14677059755225599155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-44505346750655051842014-06-26T22:33:52.646-07:002014-06-26T22:33:52.646-07:00(continued)
[DS mentions a song 'Jane' t...(continued) <br /><br />[DS mentions a song 'Jane' that Hunter's old Roadhog colleague Jim McPherson wrote with the Starship.] <br />Hunter: "He's a very good lyricist and an excellent songwriter. I didn't hear the Starship's last album. I was, of course, involved in the others, having written on Dragonfly and Red Octopus. It's the only time I've had anything on a #1 album! (laughter) Shame it had to be 'Tumblin'." (laughter) <br />DS: "It must be one of the lyrics you're least proud of!" <br />Hunter: "Indeed! I collaborated on that from London to Novato with Dave Freiberg over the phone. I went off with his changes, but we did the final leading up to it on long-distance, and then Marty came into it. I think he did a good number on it, but what he did was make it a Marty Balin tune. He can get away with that stuff because boy, can that man croon! I'd love to be able to sing like that! I would say that Marty was a fairly early influence on me with the stuff that he had done on Surrealistic Pillow..." (etc, talks more about Marty)Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-7717798953858809592014-06-26T22:33:15.728-07:002014-06-26T22:33:15.728-07:00Robert Hunter talked about his collaborations with...Robert Hunter talked about his collaborations with Freiberg in his interview with the UK magazine Dark Star (Aug & Dec 1980). <br /><br />DS: "'Tumblin' - I suspect you didn't have a very big hand in that. Did you just come in to smooth off the edges?" <br />Hunter: "That was the tune I wrote with David Freiberg and then Marty Balin added to it - 'This time our love will grow, this time you'll never know.' Those are Marty's lines." <br />DS: "It sounds much more Marty than Robert Hunter. Was it specifically written for him to sing?" <br />Hunter: "Yes." <br />DS: "Well, that explains the lyrics." <br />Hunter: "Oh yeah, I can write for people, 'cause Garcia is such a good one to write for." <br />DS: "'I Heard You Singing' and 'It's Only Music' were essentially the same song, weren't they? And the first time Freiberg gave you the changes it wasn't the way he wanted it?" <br />Hunter: "The first set of lyrics I wrote to Freiberg's changes were 'I Heard You Singing' and he didn't quite go for it, he wanted something a little different; so I wrote 'It's Only Music,' which he recorded. But I liked the 'I Heard You Singing' lyrics, so I did those and then he subsequently decided he liked them better and recorded it with Quicksilver." <br />DS: "And he did 'It's Only Music' with Grace Slick on Manhole. And what about 'Nighthawk'?" <br />Hunter: "That was an attempt to write an entirely trivial song." <br />DS: "David Freiberg said, 'It was Hunter's first fuck-song, I think. That's a fuck-song. I don't know whether he's written another one since.' (laughs) What have you got to say about that?" <br />Hunter: "I think somebody just asked me once in an interview what it was about, and just off the top of my head I said 'Oh, it's a fuck song.' And then I think that they read that and were offended by it and possibly didn't put it out for that reason. I don't think it was." (laughing) <br />DS: "I suspect there was some other reason why they didn't put it out. Were you rather upset that they didn't?" <br />Hunter: "Not at all. It's like it's just a pea in a pod. I'm always involved in so many projects, so much songwriting, that there's 15-20-25% of it doesn't come off... I'm so far on in the middle of the next project by the time you hear anything about something else - if it disappears, you know, it just disappears. I'm not in the least upset." <br />DS: "I think several members of the Starship are. They would rather have seen that on the album than 'Big City,' which I understand was the song that replaced it." <br />Hunter: "I know nothing about that. I didn't spend any time hanging out with them while they were recording, so I don't know what the feelings on any of that were." ... Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-1721972853525389502014-06-12T02:25:43.677-07:002014-06-12T02:25:43.677-07:00It was an interview by Denis McNamara for 92.7 WLI...It was an interview by Denis McNamara for 92.7 WLIR-FM Garden City, New York's "Sunday at 9:00" radio program. The recording I found (on lossless legs) is dated 1978-03-xx and was done in Hunter's room in an unknown hotel in Roslyn NY.<br /><br />I hadn't seen/heard the interview until recently. It's got lot's of other interesting stuff (bits of original lyrics for Sugar Magnolia and Scarlet Begonias for example)Alex Allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853776731974624148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-35241999544588711742014-06-09T17:51:03.434-07:002014-06-09T17:51:03.434-07:00The "thing that the drummer wrote" was a...The "thing that the drummer wrote" was a song called "Big City." It was from a legendary obscure but apparently great album called LA Getaway, by guitarist Joel Scott Hill, bassist Chris Etheridge and then Starship drummer Johnny Barbata. The album was released by Atco in 1971. The songs were supposedly good, but it would have been added to Spitfire to insure that Barbata got a writing credit. One undeniable fact about Jefferson Starship was that they did not repeat the mistakes of the Airplane, and thus they insured that everyone had a writing credit on each hit album. In this case it meant recording a 5-year old song co-written by the drummer. However, no members of Jefferson Starship have had serious money worries since, as far as I know, so it was a good strategy in that respect.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-76545435148396553452014-06-09T17:38:44.163-07:002014-06-09T17:38:44.163-07:00Alex, thanks so much for this. It puts the story i...Alex, thanks so much for this. It puts the story in context. My long-ago memory was only partially correct. Nighthawks was intended as a title track, but to the album that became Spitfire, not Red Octopus.<br /><br />It's an interesting detail, too, to hear Hunter say that he knew nothing until he went down to the record store. The world was indeed different before email. Was the Hunter interview from BAM in early '78, or a different one? There weren't that many Hunter interviews, and indeed I think he spoke more to English fanzines than American journalists.Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-14704166321543660202014-06-09T03:59:03.556-07:002014-06-09T03:59:03.556-07:00Confirmation of the Nighthawks/Spitfire story from...Confirmation of the Nighthawks/Spitfire story from a 1978 interview with Robert Hunter:<br /><br />"I guess I blew it. I wrote one for what turned out to be the Spitfire album. I wrote a tune called Nighthawk. And it was going to be the title piece for the album, and they had the cover drawn and what-not. And I was just waiting for it to come out. And I ran down to my record store. There it was. And the song wasn't on it. Much less was it not the title thing. <br /><br />"I just didn't put the attention with [the Starship] that I did with the Dead. I didn't hang out, or try to be part of the band very much. And the guys were writing a bit - I think it was replaced by something that the drummer wrote. And the people who are working in the band, functioning as the band, should have a mission and the tunes on it. So I never felt in the least bitter about not doing that. And subsequently I haven't worked with them. But not that I wouldn't - in a flash if they asked me, but they're off on another trip now. But I was with them rather between the Airplane and Starship. It was a nice time, and I enjoyed being part of them while they were underdogs. It was fun. They're not underdogs any more, but they were for a while, and it is fun working with underdogs."<br />Alex Allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853776731974624148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-9602238376327887932012-04-08T20:03:34.743-07:002012-04-08T20:03:34.743-07:00This was an interesting post, since it started out...This was an interesting post, since it started out as a brief list of collaborations between David Freiberg and Robert Hunter, and took on a life of its own. I had been thinking about why Robert Hunter and David Nelson might not have written many songs together after Dave Torbert left the Riders, since NRPS certainly needed them. Lack of proximity seemed to be the main cause, since NRPS were always on tour. <br /><br />Then I took to thinking who Hunter had collaborated with in the 70s, and Freiberg popped out. I know about some of the other collaborations. The writing of "Jesse James," with Barry Melton, took place in London for some reason, about 1972. Hunter and Melton apparently had a few pints and wrote the song one night (Joe McDonald added a few lyrics later). However, that wasn't repeated, nor intended to be. <br /><br />I agree that Hunter tended to write with people within the Dead's social network (their "Linked In" group, had such a thing existed), but it was still surprising to me how few collaborations there were until later, even within the Marin County universe.<br /><br />As to JGMF's proposition that I am reducing songwriting to "supply and demand"--why are you apologizing? I could translate this into French (if I knew French) and publish it in Annales. The economic drivers of artistic motives are what distinguishes the decision making.<br /><br />I have become increasingly conscious of the importance of Mickey Hart's Barn studio in the scheme of things. However, I simply never noticed until you pointed it out that the Barn crowd and the PEROO crowd had a lot of crossover, and often at the same time. So it's possible to see the Barn as the country retreat for PERRO--hmm, sounds like a post...Corry342https://www.blogger.com/profile/08049035074121231425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-67964094377190522632012-04-07T21:02:04.049-07:002012-04-07T21:02:04.049-07:00About proximity:
One interesting thing about the ...About proximity: <br />One interesting thing about the list here of people Hunter cowrote songs with, was that all of them had to come into the GD orbit before the collaboration happened. (In the '70s, Hunter also collaborated with Country Joe & Barry Melton, two other likely culprits.) <br />Indeed, Hunter seems to specialize in GD-offshoot bands now, where his participation is no surprise. (Even Dylan first started doing Hunter songs in, you guessed it, 1987 when he hung out with the Dead.) <br />So what strikes me is not Hunter's ability to work with a wide range of other musicians, but the limited pool of musicians he's worked with as a 'lyricist-for-hire.' Most of these were guys who, if they were hard up for a song, would of COURSE call up Hunter first, as they were already in his circle. Proximity in action.<br />How many songwriters has Hunter worked with who've been unrelated to the Dead family tree?<br /><br />About motive: <br />You list a few reasons why other songwriters might not have wanted to call up Hunter for help. But you left out what, to my mind, is perhaps the most important one: most rock songs, since the late '60s, are written either individually or by a regular team (such as a band, or a pair of 'professional' songwriters). While people within a band often work together to form a song, it is unusual for a writer to seek an outside writer's collaboration. It would be like, say, one blog-writer asking another to co-write a post! It happens (even Dylan's done it now & then), but is not the general rule. The songwriters within the Airplane & Starship worked with each other frequently on songs, but brought in outside cowriters rather infrequently.<br />David Freiberg is known for a few things, but I think being a songwriter is not among them. There are hardly any songs he wrote himself, in the Quicksilver & Starship repertoire. Almost everything he did was a collaboration with others. <br />So it makes sense that he (rather than, say, Kantner or Slick) was the one whose songs were often co-written with Hunter.Light Into Asheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06943335142002007213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-77695937621765696762012-04-07T05:39:24.899-07:002012-04-07T05:39:24.899-07:00By the way, Happy Trails was The One for me. Vinyl...By the way, <i>Happy Trails</i> was The One for me. Vinyl from Rasputin's in Concord. I was never the same.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-91222516110573982432012-04-07T05:34:59.814-07:002012-04-07T05:34:59.814-07:00To rephrase slightly, Freiberg was the arbitrageur...To rephrase slightly, Freiberg was the <i>arbitrageur</i>, who smartly (and to the benefit of all) put Hunter's songs and Jefferson song needs together.<br /><br />I don't mean that as a slight - I am a huge fan of Freiberg as a musician --he has always been a brilliant, powerful bassist (inter alia) and a strong singer ... he projects a ton of intelligence. He certainly added value to everything he touched by his smarts and creativity and skill. I am saying, as an additional feather in his cap, that he connected people in ways that had mutual benefits. Every social group (i.e., collection of three or more people) needs bridges. What's cooler than all that that?Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-21038501334131796812012-04-07T05:30:16.912-07:002012-04-07T05:30:16.912-07:00Corry, this is nothing short of stunning. Let me t...Corry, this is nothing short of stunning. Let me try to address a few pieces.<br /><br />Your thesis is that "songwriting collaborations in the 70s required proximity ... Hart's ranch was the keystone, the glue that kept a few Marin musicians together on a semi-regular basis."<br /><br />I think you're really onto something that I haven't thought much of, and need to stew. You set up the parallel that flashed into my mind, which was PERRO. You are adding the Hart Barn element, and I think that's something we haven't gotten around sufficiently to elaborating and understanding.<br /><br />But I think the basic thesis has a really nice technological determinism to it that is appropriate to this case. Swapping tapes through the mail is something a lot of us did, but it's harder to imagine doing so for songwriting purposes over any extended period of time and/or with any success. I am sure there are lots of exceptions (i.e., successful, long-term songwriting collaborations), but it doesn't seem that easy to do. Initial location will drive a lot.<br /><br />All that said, as a thesis statement, it's incomplete. Opportunity (i.e., local availability) interacts with Incentive (i.e., bills and record contracts). Hate to reduce it to supply and demand, but there you have it. So I'd expand your thesis to suggest that it is the interaction of local availability and song demand from the Jeffersons that drove Freiberg-Hunter. I guess I am adding a good dose of economic determinism to leaven your techological determinism. Or something.<br /><br />I agree with your read on Freiburg's smarts and prescience. People seem only now to be realizing that a Great American Songwriter really well and truly walks among them. Robert Hunter is one of the great poetic geniuses.<br /><br />The ecologies of all of these folks are fascinating and, when people made it work, quite glorious (if baroque) works of human inspiration themselves. The Dream went lots of places, and here's one where we can have our cake and eat it too. Kudos to the Airplane folks, Hunter, Freiburg, and so many of those people to have come out alive on the other side. And making it work, in its way. Learning lessons, as you say Kantner et al had. It's a good thing.<br /><br />Smaller stuff: what was the Nicky connection to Solid Silver?<br /><br />As always, your scholarship on these songs is unmatched and important. Thanks for sharing it.Fate Musichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05648291938690043423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5268955857828486331.post-24104269180700453422012-04-06T17:38:27.405-07:002012-04-06T17:38:27.405-07:00"Nighthawk" (or "Night Hawk") ..."Nighthawk" (or "Night Hawk") is on several live Jefferson Starship tapes from 1976, including a soundboard of the July 14 show in Hartford.<br /><br />David Freiberg stayed with Jefferson Starship until 1984. I was at the last show Paul Kantner played with them, June 23, 1984 (at Marriott's Great America with Billy Satellite opening). David left a bit after that. I remember that Paul Sears would play bass most of the show, but David would play bass on the song "Stranger," wearing a headset-type microphone.ChicoArchivisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18254408234159259004noreply@blogger.com